PR
New Era Transition #034 – Race; #MeToo; Moral behavior; Alternative to Jails – Feb. 12, 2018
Machiventa Melchizedek, Planetary Manager
Topics:
Your Christian heritage
Willing to do God’s Will
Co-creating with Christ Michael and the Celestials
Attribution in quotations
Debt jubilees
Race relations and the 7 core values
Being less than human
Cleansing negative thinking of others
Conflict between moral conscience and personal thoughts
Preparation for the changes to come
The 7 values and current movements in society
The age of materiality on a global level
Rise in human consciousness
Using shame as a deterrent
The alternative to jails
What is needed is a moral evaluation of behavior
Society’s moral responsibility to remove predators from society
The immaturity of our societies
Talking about capital punishment with others
Understanding the removal process
Human rights
Closing statements
TR: Daniel Raphael, PhD
Team members present: Roxanne Andrews, Liz Cratty, Jeff Cutler, Doug Dodge, Stéphane Labonte
Invocation: Liz
February 12, 2018
MACHIVENTA: Good morning, this is Machiventa Melchizedek; it is good to be with you again.
For those of you who have the Planetary Management macro-perspective of your world and our work, you have probably noticed in the course of our 2-week meetings that we have been using what you might call, “filler material” to fill-in the blank spaces as we wait for the development of the events that will bring us into our co-creative implementation. This fill-in material is not light weight stuff, as you know; it is a comfortable place to be to learn more about yourselves as spiritual beings in growth. And so today I will borrow another lesson from Rayson’s notebook and add some material of my own.
Your Christian heritage
First, Most of you have had experience in one way or another with the Christian Church in its various belief systems. You have been given the commandments to love one another, to live without sin and forethought of sin, and to be in oneness with the Father. This is the beginning of moving into an attitude and belief system that is in alignment with the flow of the universe and the Will of the Father.
Secondly, Along the way, some of you have been taught to pray for doing God’s Will, and many of you have learned what this is in its various forms, sometimes very mistakenly by church organizations. We have told you that simply doing God’s Will is to ask and pray for right and perfect developments to come into your life as opportunities that lead you into the course and fulfillment of your life plan and your life mission.
The third one is to do exactly that, to pray for those developments that come into your life that lead you into your greatness, into the fulfillment of your life plan. One of the statements that we make [in] these prayers and moving into this elevated state of your spiritual being and of growth is that the harmful, hurtful, and the painful incidents along the way are not caused by the Father or by us, and that there has never been an intention to bring you pain and suffering. It is simply that this is one of the aspects of living a mortal life as a material being on a material planet. As you grow into your spiritual elevation and development, you will see less and less of these painful incidents, and when they do come, you will be able to interpret them accurately for what they really are.
Willing to do God’s Will
The fourth phase is to work in concert with us, to will to do God’s Will in your life, and in working with us. This is a most difficult transition or plane of being-ness in your spirituality, for most of you it is unknown as to what that is. This is where your meditation and your inner conversations with your Thought Adjuster become paramount, and you ask for your Thought Adjuster to assist you in these revelations.
Co-creating with Christ Michael and the Celestials
The fifth stage of all this is to then become a co-creative partner in the Correcting Time with Christ Michael and with us. This is where you consciously become aware of your participation and the contribution you can make. For most of you who do not hear the inner voice, this may be most difficult, but yet you proceed in faith and you continue to pray, meditate, contemplate, reflect, and discern your thoughts in these conversations that you have. Even if you do not hear those conversations you have the capacity to be in that oneness with spirit, and surely that does make a very large impact on your thinking in your mind and your own development.
These five stages do not represent that they are a plan of growth for you, and as you have seen through the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission, many of you are listeners and readers, and there are a few who have become highly active in our co-creative work, where you become conscious of yourself, willing to participate with us to improve the conditions of your world for this generation and for all future generations.
As you Agondonters know so well that this is an almost intolerable situation where you love God and you know that God loves you, that Christ Michael and your Thought Adjuster have plans for you and need for you to perform and work out your life growth in a positive, co-creative and contributing way to the advancement of your world. This is where your faith comes into play; it is more than just hope; it is more than faith, belief, and trust, it is “KNOWING.” When you come to this stage of knowing that you are one with God and God is one with you through your Thought Adjuster, then you know that you are on track, whether you see it or not. You have a peace within you that passes all understanding. You accept or tolerate the difficulties in your life, but you understand them more thoroughly and you realize that they are not personal—and they are not tests—they are simply part of how you live your life.
This is the short version of the lesson today; it is something for you to contemplate on, to think about and to then exercise your will as you think it needs to be exercised to bring what you need into your life to participate, or not. It is always a decision to do God’s Will or not, and oftentimes when you are in faith as Agondonters, you do not see what that is, yet you have faith knowing that you are being guided, and that is essential to our relationship.
If you have questions concerning this or other presentations in the past, or other questions unrelated to these issues, you are most welcome to bring them forward now.
Attribution in quotations
Jeff: Machiventa, this is Jeff. (Machiventa: Good morning.) Good morning, Sir. If Liz and I were to quote your words in the material that we are developing, or on the 7 core web site that we are developing, how do you suggest we give attribution to your words? Should we leave it anonymous? Can we use your given name—I don’t know much about Melchizedeks, I don’t know how they get their names, but it is fair to say that “Machiventa” is a given name? Is that the correct… (Machiventa: Yes.) So could we just use your quote and say, “Machiventa says…”? Is that acceptable?
MACHIVENTA: I would refrain from doing so, as there is a mortal who goes by the name of “Machiventa Melchizedek,” as he is the “armorer of light’ and when he speaks about the armorer, he means weapons, and the ambiguous nature of his personal mission in this lifetime is cause for me to have concern of you publishing my name as Machiventa Melchizedek.
Jeff: I wasn’t planning to use “Melchizedek,” but if it’s okay, we will just leave the attribution off.
MACHIVENTA: Please and thank you.
Debt jubilees
Jeff: I have one more question about that: Long ago in some agrarian societies, I guess particularly in the Mesopotamia area, debt jubilees were employed as a sustainability mechanism—some were 75 years, and some were the beginning of a new reign. Is some form of that process compatible with the 7 core values, that validation model?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, it is. However there are many “howevers” involved in giving that a positive nod. Continue if you wish.
Race relations and the 7 core values
Jeff: My last question today is, “Did the Lucifer Rebellion’s interference with our DNA bring about the discrimination of people with different skin color? And if not, can the 7 core value model help to ameliorate this human trait?”
MACHIVENTA: Yes to both questions.
Jeff: Can you expound a little further on the second “yes?”
MACHIVENTA: Most certainly. (Chuckling.) Restate that question again, please.
Jeff: Did the Lucifer Rebellion’s interference bring about the discrimination of people by different skin color and if not, can the 7 core value model help to ameliorate this human trait?
MACHIVENTA: I will address the second part of your question. Most certainly, the 7 values are most useful for doing that. You would need to use the social sustainability design and validation schematic to assist you in that process. It is a methodology that assists individuals to examine the values, the beliefs, and under beliefs are assumptions and the expectations and the criteria for fulfillment of what fulfills the expectations. Then all of those aspects in those columns are validated by the criteria of the 7 values in the first column to the left. When you do that, you will find and you will see how discrimination is not socially sustainable. It is an attitude, a mindset of bias and inequality, and that it shows a lack of empathy and compassion and “love of humanity,” for the totality of all races and ethnicities of people.
When people hold ideas of negative opinions, bias, prejudice and bigotry, they are saying in effect that they are not fully human. To be fully human as you were created by the Life Carriers, according to the designs that were approved for those designs, that you are children of God, and that you as humans carry the essence of your humanity in your genes that give you the capacity to grow into your spirithood along the whole course of your spiritual career. These 7 values are used on many other planets where sentient life is making will-decisions, moral, ethical, personal, social will-decisions concerning how the individual views and interacts with others. These values are universal to your species and universal to similar species on other planets, whether they are similar to your species or not.
There is a necessity of a sense of equality that you are “all in this” universal, spiritual ascendant career together, and that there is no separation. Ideas, thoughts, beliefs, attitudes and behaviors that espouse separation are not in agreement with who you truly are as humans, which means that on a moral level, you are less than human and that you have decided to be immoral in the way you live. I make that particular comment because this will be the adjudicating factor for deciding who is moral and who is not in a world that is entering into social sustainability and whose societies have made the decision to use these 7 values to do so. Those who cause behavior or words that incite separation will be set aside, they will be excluded, they will be exiled from the main group.
If you want social stability, then you must get rid of the beliefs and assumptions—particularly the assumptions and associated expectations—that maintain separation between you and all others, between your race and other races, other ethnic groups and your own, for instance, and between the genders. These attitudes are endemic on in almost all societies of Urantia. They are evidence of a primitive planet when you see widespread bigotry, prejudice, bias and negative opinions against genders, differences of genders and races, and so on.
Being less than human
Stéphane: I have a question, Machiventa, about this tendency to be less than human, as it relates to the Planetary Supreme. So, all of our thoughts contribute to the Supreme, to the Gaia of this world, and this remains on the planet beyond our stay here, and some of those negative influences apparently have to be cleared. Can you expand on that and how this influences our day-to-day tendencies to be less than human?
MACHIVENTA: One moment. I will give you a partial answer. As we operate in the positive and we teach in the positive and in the constructive, the answer is this: That you make huge contributions to Gaia, to the Planetary Supreme when you make decisions and take actions that support the fullness of your humanness, which is the mirror of your ascending soul. You have much to give to this world. We do not focus on the negative, or the negative influence on you. Doing so diverts and deflects the personal responsibility for one’s own behavior and their own thinking. We are not stern parents, but we certainly are careful teachers to teach you to monitor yourself and make contributions to yourself, to the planet, and to your family and to your neighbors.
Stéphane: Okay, then how about the responsibility for cleansing the negative thinking of others? Do we have the responsibility while we are here on Urantia to partake in this cleansing?
Cleansing negative thinking of others
MACHIVENTA: There is much harmful thinking that can emanate from that position. We encourage you, we teach you, we mentor you, and counsel you to tend to your own garden and tend to your own thinking. For a person to take the position that “I am going to help cleanse the world of this negativity” can take on an arrogant and condescending perspective, which is very infantile and immature. This is the difficulty of self-assigned missions of righteousness. One must be very careful to do that and we leave that to angels, rather than mortals.
Conflict between moral conscience and personal thoughts
Roxie: I have a personal question. I’ve been reading in the Urantia Book about Jesus’ discourse on the soul, and I discovered that I am having a conflict between my moral conscience and being very critical of how my government is being run, the lies, the subterfuge, the pandering to the large corporations, while ignoring the true needs of the people. This doesn’t seem to be helping my soul growth because of my negativity. Can you help me with this?
MACHIVENTA: Most certainly. Again, you are most responsible for your own thinking and for your words and your behavior. You have total discretion to monitor and control and guide your own thinking through your will-self, your will-mind. You can guide your immature mind to “mind its own business.” You then can nurture the soul growth that you are seeking. On the other hand, if you have the discretion to affect national outcomes and the capacity to change the behavior of those who are in power, and do not do so, then you are morally bereft and you should be most concerned about your situation. However, as we understand your personal political situation, you have no capacity or ability to make those decisions; therefore your morality is not impaired.
It is simply your erroneous conscious mind thinking about its own thinking and going around in circles chasing its tail that is bothering you so much. You need to talk with your Thought Adjuster and your Guardian to monitor and to curtail the activity of your immature part of your mind. That is the necessary aspect of your social, emotional, and personality development. You have a chore to do in this lifetime and that is to monitor your thinking and to not follow its negative lead. You, as a will creature who know the 7 values and you know your humanness, realize that being concerned about the immorality of your government is not something that you can change by yourself. It is one aspect that is your challenge to live with and to grow through.
Roxie: Thank you very much! I appreciate that.
Preparation for the changes to come
Jeff: Following up on Roxie’s question, you made the comment about a month ago that we would hardly recognize the world by the end of the year. Instead of gnashing our teeth, so to speak, about what we see in the leadership of not only our country, but Europe and Asia, is there something more positive that we should be actively doing for ourselves and our group and our personal missions to get prepared for changes that you say are unstoppable?
MACHIVENTA: One moment. I am chuckling because this has been the tenant of all of our discussions for the last many years that is all about the positive. The detrimental cataclysms that we give you are the things that you are striving to avoid. We have given you much direction and guidance for your personal lives, your family and your community as to how you can move forward positively to engage a future that will be much changed. You should not be in fear of what is to come by year’s end, but you should be in fear of what you have not done to prepare. Your question is appropriate as it is perhaps asked by many people. It is a time to now to set your house in order to make right that which you have need to do.
And to refer back to your earlier question about the debt forgiveness jubilee and knowing what is to come, it is not a time to go out and buy another house, 3 cars and a yacht and a vacation and be deeply indebted, and then hopefully this debt forgiveness will come along and wipe away all of your debts. That is surely inviting trouble that you do not need into your life, and that is an incredibly immature way to proceed. Our statements are not meant as a warning, but an advisement that it is now time to get your house in order and to right the wrongs that you may have caused and to be in right alignment with yourself. . .
[This is Daniel: Excuse me—I lost that one.]
MACHIVENTA: Was there more to your question, Jeff?
Jeff: No, I think you answered it very specifically.
The 7 values and current movements in society
Stéphane: Along the same line, could we use some of the day-to-day events that we see today and put them in light of the 7 values, for instance the #MeToo movement that we are seeing today? There seems to be a cleansing going on and that is definitely aligned with the 7 core values, whether we look at each one of them and apply them to current events, such as this one, or the Arab Spring of years ago and the 1% Movement, and other similar event? I would suggest to apply the 7 core values to current event so we can train our minds to get ready. Can you elaborate on this?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, and I say “yes” again! You have hit upon the major tenant of our work now, and the work of Nebadonia and her many Corps of Angels. What you are seeing is the outworking of the influence to raise the consciousness of your world. You are seeing it through the 1% Movement. The #MeToo movement is particularly important to your world and to your national societies at this time because the maturity of a planet is measured in its capacity to tolerate differences, even at the most elemental level, which is at the gender level. It is important to use these 7 values to weigh the rightness of the #MeToo movement as an example.
What has motivated these women to come forward is the violation of their equality, the violation of who they are, and the egregious demonstration of the arrogance of men to hold differences against women and see them as objects to be used as they wish. This is one of the most intolerable aspects that we see on your planet and it is pandemic throughout all of your cultures. It is more so in many cultures, but it is obvious in this culture and that of Western civilization. Particularly in democracies, the abuse of women has been hidden, has been cloaked by power and control of those who have been abused. This no longer is tolerable and we—the Angelic Corps, the Melchizedeks and many others—have worked to a high degree to bring this present.
Now, if you were looking at the reasons why women have started this movement, using these 7 core values, you would see that when one value is violated that they all are violated. For instance, these violations decrease the quality of life of the individual, both intra-personally and inter-personally, that they have been abused and they have been denigrated either publically or in their own self-knowledge that they have been deemed to be less than nothing, or have no worth or value to be abused this way. This goes to the heart and core of a person’s capacity to grow into their innate capacity that they brought with them at birth. When an individual sees how they have been abused, it stultifies them and limits their capacity to grow into their innate capabilities and potential.
In its most egregious perspective is that it is a behavior of vast inequality, that the person is treated as a slave was treated many centuries ago. And out of equality, you see that the individual who does the abusing has absolutely no empathy for the victim, and that they have no compassion for the individual at all, and that what the predator is saying is that they have no love of humanity, other than for themselves as a predator and user and abuser of women. Ultimately, this challenges life, that the life of the victim is threatened in all regards and all aspects of the 7 values, that life has become almost meaningless and some have committed suicide. When this develops to this point you are seeing the grossest inhumanity to your fellow brothers and sisters and it is intolerable—should be intolerable to you and to everyone else, male or female.
That is an example that is easily replicated for most other crimes, most all other forms of abuse. It can be quite subtle socially when you hear someone in a group of people speak sarcastically about another individual who is in that group, and they are very sincere about sarcasm. Sarcasm is the lowest level of rage that exists in predators, and is a form of social abuse; it is also intolerable to us and it also violates all the 7 values that you have asked us illustrate. Thank you very much for your question.
Roxie: I appreciated that answer very much; thank you, Machiventa.
Liz: Me too; that was very nice. That’s also a good illustration for our course work.
Jeff: I agree. It’s almost a perfect plug.
Doug: I don’t have a question today, and I’m going to say goodbye. See you next time.
[Note: Doug is at work and calls in during his break.]
The age of materiality on a global level
Stéphane: I have somewhat of a question about this age of materiality that we are living in that’s allowing movements like #MeToo and to become global consciousness rather than localized, thus allowing the movements to challenge the established status quos in society. This age of materiality has also allowed us to be self-destructive, as evidenced by the existence of 15,000 nuclear warheads in existence today giving our races the ability to destroy ourselves many times over. This material age is working for us while it is also working against us in other ways, but it has allowed for a proliferation of global consciousness at many levels. Can you comment that this was intentional in the development of Urantia for this to happen in this order?
MACHIVENTA: By question do you mean the development of material?
Stéphane: Yes, to happen at this time and for this consciousness to arise at the global level?
MACHIVENTA: No, it was not an intentional development from spiritual intervention but rather of natural social evolution. It is a consequence of the materialism that began before and after the industrial revolution that began the focus on material goods to solve problems and that taken to extremes it has developed as it has. What has not occurred is the counterbalance of social consciousness of individuals, leaders and others to come forward and curtail the materialism that has developed. As you can see, and as you read in the Urantia Book, in comparison to other worlds the materialism that is rampant on your world is an extreme position. It now rests way out of skew of the vast majority of planets that have gone through similar eras of material development and industrialization as has Urantia.
Saying this, it is not an intention for these things to have occurred; it is however the intention of Christ Michael before and after his ascension as Jesus to make plans for the Correcting Time which you are now seeing and participating in. The actuarialists or the forecasters of planetary development at the Uversa level of observation are very accurate in surmising what will occur in centuries ahead. These forecasts were available to Christ Michael, and even with his own powers of observation of the future he knew ahead that this planet would be in desperate need of the Correcting Time and its inception at a particular time when it would be well received when the difficulties of your world required its corrective presence, the presence of the Correcting Time programs.
Rise in human consciousness
When you have such foresight, you can prepare ahead for the opportunities that allow you to take advantage of negative circumstances, and fortuitous circumstances. One can make wonderful plans ahead knowing what will occur, and for the time that it is needed and under the circumstances and the ways to appeal to individuals to participate in these programs. We are almost at that point now through Nebadonia’s work on this world through her Angelic Corps to influence and raise the consciousness and particularly the vibration of human consciousness, the collective human consciousness on Urantia. This in our terms is a vast success and you are seeing this in many places. What is allowing the coalescence of common thoughts and opinions and values to come forward in the #MeToo movement, for example, is that there were people ready for this at a time when it appeared.
Now there are individuals who are coming forward who would not have otherwise stepped forward to have their say about how they were abused and make it known to the world that it unfortunately has been a common occurrence throughout all your cultures. As we have said before, what is missing for the vast number of unspoken people who hold similar values and opinions and attitudes about the injustices that occur in your world, whether it is the 1%, 99% or many other situations, is that there has heretofore been no coalescing influence to bring like-minded people together. What we are striving to do through the 7 values is to bring commonality into awareness of everyone, regardless of culture, regardless of race, regardless of gender.
The questions you have asked today regarding the 7 values are primary to the coalescence that will occur in the future. Because the 7 values are common to all people and innate to all people, they will eminently make sense to everyone when social programs are based on these values that appeal to those people. You will find a growing commonality among millions of people who have seen no sense of participating in some of these movements, but have been waiting for something that appeals to them at their level of awareness, something that is common to them and their thinking. Does this make sense to you?
Stéphane: Yes, thank you.
Using shame as a deterrent
Jeff: Machiventa, this is Jeff again. I’d like to ask an ancillary question to Stéphane’s and that is: Is society capable of using shame as a control over people’s behaviors and habits?
MACHIVENTA: Repeat that again, please.
Jeff: I’m asking you to comment on the power of “shame” to have sexual predators and predators of all other kinds of things as a deterrent to their behaviors. I don’t know that we can physically, as a society, put people in jail or lock them up or fine them, or do this and that, to modify their behavior on their own, and I am asking you your thoughts on the concept of “shame.”
MACHIVENTA: I understand. Let us take it back to the life of Jesus. Did Jesus ever shame anyone? No, he did not. He used parables, he used stories, he used his teachings to bring people into the awareness of something being wrong and not being right. Shame is an abusive emotional attitude and reaction of individuals. It has often been used for negative results than the positive. Shame is not a tactic that we use and it is not part of our repertoire of coaching and mentoring to individuals, or the Most Highs to groups of individuals or organizations. Shame is powerful, but only negatively as it is so destructive, and if you take the test of the 7 values, shame does not fit anywhere as an answer to those values.
The alternative to jails
Stéphane: Thank you for that answer. I want to discuss how to rehabilitate the guilty ones, instead of locking them up, so they can come back as valuable members of society. What are the prerequisites for this change in our society? I would venture to guess we need people to believe in the 7 core values as a core part of their beings. If that was the case for everyone, of course, there would be no need for locking people up and we would be able to implement systems in place to help everybody out that is not fully aligned. But what are the prerequisites for allowing a change in how we deal with violence instead of locking people up? What needs to happen?
MACHIVENTA: I am very pleased with your question, because it is a primary moral question to the advancement of social evolution of societies on primitive planets such as Urantia. The prerequisites are huge, if you take this situation of your societies and civilization now, it has long been stated by philosophers that you know the maturity of a society by how it treats its criminals, and the conditions of its prisons. There must be a complete shift in thinking about the individual as a personally responsible individual and contributor or detractor of the social progress and evolution of society.
What is needed is a moral evaluation of behavior
There are fundamentally, basically three positions of individuals in your society: 1) those who make positive contributions; 2) those who make no contributions but do not do any harm; and, 3) those who are detractors and actually retard the social progress and evolution of your societies, even at the expense of victims who may be damaged for the full duration of their lives and incapable of overcoming those harmful, detrimental situations and predatory acts. What is truly needed is a thorough moral evaluation of the behavior of individuals. As This One has been taught, we have spoken about personal responsibility, that the individual is responsible for their behavior. On the primitive concept of correcting detrimental social behavior, locking individuals up is of no use; you simply delay the obvious result that will occur when they are released. Sexual predators are the most resistant to correction. They are ingrained in their mind by their capacity and their sense of self-entitlement that all others are to be used for their benefit and their gratification.
Society’s moral responsibility to remove predators from society
What is also needed at the most basic level, after you come to the assessment of personal responsibility or the incapacity of an individual to correct their behavior when they are free in society is the ultimate moral responsibility for society to remove them from society, permanently. It is your civilization, your societies, particularly your democracies that are egregiously delinquent in making these assessments and to make clear the difference between a societal responsibility for protecting those who make contributions and to those who are neutral, from those who would make predatory, detrimental actions and behaviors to the destruction of individuals and to the detriment of your societal progress and evolution. It is one thing for a person to kill another individual, which is completely immoral and unethical in all regards. That action is something that can cause detriment to the individual’s survival as a soul, particularly when it is intentional. Accidental death is another issue.
For you to undergo the growth in social stability that you are speaking of, society must take the societal, moral responsibility to remove these people permanently from your society. You do not live in an amoral society, but an immoral society because your society has not chosen to remove these individuals. It would rather leave those individuals in your society to the detriment of dozens, if not hundreds of victims whose lives will be changed through the negative for the duration of their life, than to remove that individual to protect innocent victims. This is a moral quandary that has not even been pondered by your society and your government. You are, in our estimation—and I say this strongly—you are a morally spineless society! Democracies should not and must not tolerate such egregious behavior by individuals to the detriment of future generations.
Jeff: Very straightforward.
Liz: Well, that’s true, and that also goes for our lack of population control, when you speak of being a spineless society. I understand that completely.
MACHIVENTA: Those two themes run together.
Jeff: Yes.
Liz: We have much work to do.
The immaturity of our societies
MACHIVENTA: Yes, that was a powerful statement, but it needs to have been said, and now hopefully through these statements, you can understand the immaturity of your societies and the immense need for the Correcting Time and for conscientious, moral, spiritually evolved individuals to participate in our work. This is not work for cowards; this is not for those who are socially or morally reticent, but those who are willing to engage a situation appropriately, when it arises. We are not espousing individuals to cause problems or to demonstrate in the streets, or to otherwise give attention to what we are saying. These are natural developments that will develop out of the cataclysms in the near to medium future. There will be a necessity of survival to make these tough moral decisions — decisions that are in total agreement with the 7 values of social sustainability. There are several levels of using those values: the personal level, the family level, the social level, and societal level. They all have their moral repercussions when you engage them at those different levels. The responsibilities accrue individually to each level accordingly to the 7 values.
Talking about capital punishment with others
Jeff: Along the line you are speaking, would you encourage us or discourage us from visiting capital punishment in the early formation of our classes and web sites and materials?
MACHIVENTA: First we need commonality in our thinking on that subject. For any planet that is engaging in its advancement towards social stability and social sustainability there is no capital punishment. The aspect of punishment is primitive. Punishment has no social value to the individual or to society. One either decides to be compliant to the requirements of living in a stabilizing society or they do not, and those who do not always seem to cause acts of separation that put them apart in a moral situation where they are no longer acceptable to the larger society. Though there is no punishment involved, there would be a process of rapid adjudication that would determine whether the individual is capable of remediating their own thinking in their lives by their and decisions or not. If there was a particular act involved that would question their survivability then that must be made; if it is in this regard, all decisions have nothing to do with punishment and all decisions are positive. The person would then be simply removed from society permanently.
Understanding the removal process
Jeff: I guess I don’t understand the removal process; are you speaking of banishment, or are you speaking of just dispatching them to the Ancients of Days?
MACHIVENTA: There is no banishment; banishment and imprisonment are socially unsustainable. The process of handing them over to the Ancients of Days is a process that requires much attention in your society. You can view the primitiveness of your society as it thinks about and makes edicts to terminate the life of an individual. There are many processes used now that are primitive to the extreme and that would never be used in a society that is advancing towards social stability. You have many nominal means of dispatching an individual peacefully, carefully, quietly without aggrandizement of violence. For example, and we draw this from your own experience in your societies, either personally or as you watch the news, that your police stations often have in their storage lockers as evidence, many kilos of heroin and morphine.
If you made a liquid intravenous drip out of heroin, you could dispatch a person rather quickly, peacefully and painlessly and quietly, without any evidence of violence. You have many drugs that are used by physicians, which would be highly useful, besides the opiates: Fentanyl is one of them that is used by many people who have passed on voluntarily, or accidently. You have several examples of celebrities in this last year and the year before. These are non-violent drugs that are simply very useful for terminating life in a peaceful way. You do not need to be a medical genius to think of the processes to bring about death peacefully.
Human rights
Stéphane: So the words that comes to mind are “human rights”. If we had this debate, the challenge would be around “human rights”. But what I think is missing along the lines of human rights discussion are society’s rights and society’s primal right to be able to sustain itself. I think this is where the whole conversation goes astray in that human rights are held in much higher esteem than society’s right to exist peacefully.
MACHIVENTA: Your question overlays something more fundamental. The 7 values have sustained your species’ survival, and now through the Correcting Time, we are striving to apply the 7 values to sustain your social existence. Heretofore there has been no means to create a socially sustainable society or nation, or civilization. It has simply come into being and was eventually eclipsed by its own ignorance of the intention to become sustainable into a long and distant future. One of your concerns that underlies your question is the fact that you are moving from personal survival to the survival of societies. This is a completely new level of awareness and the concern that we have is not just the survival of this generation, but for all future generations.
As your world and your societies, particularly this society that you live in in the United States, is undergoing much moral decay and disintegration at the social/societal level, governmental/political level and the financial/economic level and especially egregiously at the family level. Your societies are failing to produce individuals who are socially sustainable as leaders who could make contributions to the sustainability of future generations. When the rights of individuals surpass the rights of all future generations, then something is very morally wrong with your society. Yes, there is a concern for human rights; humans do have rights as individuals, but they surely do not eclipse the moral rights of future generations to live in peace.
Jeff: A very good point; thank you.
[Daniel: You guys are working this; this is good stuff! I’ve not heard questions like this out of anybody in the last 16 years. You’re plowing new ground.
Jeff: Well, Daniel, I think that that is because there are now tools at our disposal to leverage much of what is being said into cultural movements and away from the politics that we have known in this country for 250 years.
Daniel: And what I see in your work with Liz at the college level, now hopefully you are beginning to see that the topics of social evolution and morality becomes a larger part of a 4 year program, that your work is to: 1) Introduce social sustainability and for it to be accepted as a viable course, even if it is just one course for one quarter, 2) and then have it evolve through discussion groups into larger groups and more classes, such as has occurred during this session today. To ask those questions about the worth of the 7 values to examine moral issues in social situations, that leads to great thinking.
Jeff: I think we are seeing examples coming out, day-to-day that put in light of the 7 values are extremely applicable.
Daniel: Yes, and by working the 7 values, you come up with far different answers, and oftentimes answers that would never come about through the old traditional means of discussion.
Stéphane: Such as we’ve heard today.
Daniel: I’m kind of at a close here guys.
Jeff: Speaking of working, we’ve worked you pretty hard today!
Daniel: Yes, there was a little bit of energy coming through me today, as I felt.
Roxie: Does Machiventa have a closing statement for us?
Daniel: Yes, he does. Thank you for moving us there.]
Closing statements
MACHIVENTA: As you see from our very fluid and engaged conversation and dialog today, there are vastly important questions that have not ever been asked before, only through perhaps one or two philosophers over coffee in a coffee house, over brandies at a tavern. It is time now to bring all these questions forward into the public view, and certainly you have many that can be asked by educated individuals using the 7 values to examine these issues and gain answers and insights into your social situations which heretofore have not existed. We hope that you are beginning to see that you and we are living on the cusp of the moral regeneration of this world, and that you and we have the means to do so, and that through Nebadonia’s and Christ Michael’s plans to raise the consciousness of the world, you will not be alone, and we will not be alone as we work with you and engage millions of other people who have similar concerns for themselves, their children and future generations. It is imperative that all this examination not be focused on this generation, but on the welfare and sustainability of future generations. You and we truly hold the sustainability and the survival of future generations in the palms of our hands now, within the spans of your lifetimes. We thank you and good day.
