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PMG4- Growing With God, Democracies & Oligarchies, Ethics & Morality

2021-05-03, Growing With God, Democracies & Oligarchies, Ethics & Morality

Planetary Manager’s Group #4 – (Find this and previous PMG’s at:

Machiventa Melchizedek, Planetary Manager


Growing with God toward perfection

Peace of mind

Representative democracies and oligarchies

Take a leap forward

Getting to Stage 3


Potential topics

Harmony of motivation

A get-together during the pandemic

Ethics and morality during a pandemic

Benefits of in person meetings—rubbing auras

Ethics and morality of vaccines

Life is a precious commodity

Be aware of yourself as a god in expression

TR:  Daniel Raphael, PhD

Invocation: Jeff


Growing with God toward perfection

Machiventa: This is Machiventa. Good morning. It is an auspicious occasion for us to meet. This is how I view our meetings every two weeks. It is a particularly special time in your lives and in my existence to be able to greet you, to be here with you, to share the intelligence of the universe with you, and for you to seek answers for those things that you’ve always wondered about. Your world is experiencing some particular trauma now, principally the pandemic, the uncertainty of global economics, the rise of the right, and those individuals who would become and who are predators of your societies, both those very wealthy people and those people who are impoverished.

Our work here, as far as the planetary manager’s team that deals with the correcting time and the teaching mission and those other missions that are existent, is to help you understand and make sense of the world around you—that this is not just an ongoing episode of chaos one year after another, one decade after another, and one century after another. We recognize, as does the First Source and Center, that your world is a hotbed of discontent and that there are very few people who are content, who are at peace with themselves (principally), and at peace with their universe. This, for the First Source and Center, is a rich battleground of decision making where individuals must make decisions [about] their experiences; they must make decisions to do that which is right and to oppose those who are not.

For the first Source and Center (our Creator) who is perfect has never had the experience of living, and have always been perfect began to wonder in the beginning, before time, of how this occurred, what would it be like to be imperfect, and what would the journey be like to move towards perfection. And so, you as mortals have this chore, if you accept, to strive to become perfect as your Creator and in doing so give your creator the opportunity to experience, through you, the process of living and the process of making decisions that lead towards your perfection so you realize that you are one with the Creator. The Creator, as a fragment of Itself, has given Itself to you to be with you, to experience your growth into perfection, and to assist you in doing so. This is really what your lives are all about. In the meantime, you go to work, raise a family, have mortgage payments, make choices about how you live, your own lifestyle, and the quality of life that you want to achieve. And sometimes, when you work through all these things after several decades, you arrive (if you’re fortunate) in your 40s and you’ve decided to live a simpler life, you begin taking those steps.

Peace of mind

It is in peace of mind that you find your growth. It is in your peace of mind that you find, upon reflecting on your experiences, the wisdom that you need to move ahead; to help you make sense of your life now and as you are presented with new experiences in the future. This is essential. One of your philosophers long ago said the unexamined life is not worth living. In many ways this is true because it takes reflection of your own experiences to garner that wisdom that you need to make fewer and fewer mistakes in life—to live more easily, to live with less anxiety, no worry, no fear. And so, you have this before you in your lifetime.

As you can see from many of your local citizens and those on the news and TV, this seems to be an almost impossible task. Yet your lifestyle is a choice. It is a way of living, of you moving ahead. Sometimes you are caught up in such a tight little scheme that you cannot see outside of the box you’ve created for yourself. This is very unfortunate for what you see is a game of life that you own, that it is invested in you, and you are invested in it. And you see no other way of living. This is disastrous to the growth of your soul. You make your soul more weighty with more soul inertia to help you cross over into the morontial life. Some of these decisions are very, very difficult. They are existential in nature. In reality, you determine your existence into the future with every day that you live. We’re here to assist you to do that, to learn how to go within, to release the tight hold you have in your life, and to share your life with your Thought Adjuster—the God presence within you—and your celestial teachers and angels. They—we are all here to help you—assist you to grow. Growth is the primary value for souls in transition from the mortal to the morontial. Thank you. I am open for questions if you have any.

JT: Alright, I’ll start the question-and-answer mode. We’re going to open the questions up with Jeff.

Representative democracies and oligarchies

Jeff: Thank you JT. Machiventa, this is a question I’ve been thinking about for some time. And so, it’s really a throwback to discussions that we’ve had in the past. You’ve stated on more than one occasion that representative democracy is a preferred form of government. At least one contemporary historian has claimed that all republics eventually devolved into oligarchies. My question is, are oligarchies an efficient system of providing goods and services to a large population or are they a basic threat to true republican government? Thank you.

Machiventa.  They are definitely a threat. Thank you. You have further questions regarding that?

Jeff: Well, it seems at least my reading of history is that the Founding Fathers of the United States looked at all of the governments that they could find that had failed and tried to figure out what was the best form, and our lower house of government was modeled after the democracy in the city of Genoa where people served two years for free or nominal compensation and they had term limits. They spent two years representing their district and they were gone. In a stage three democracy it seems to me that having a system where large corporations, large labor unions, and large groups of people can essentially bribe politicians to represent their need, this representative forum that we have now just isn’t working. And if that’s your perception, do you have any suggestions of how people like ourselves could get other small groups to maybe move to a different organization in the stage three democracy?

Take a leap forward

Machiventa.  Yes. The foundations of democracy are based upon the foundational authority of the public, of citizens individually and collectively. That, as you know, has been greatly eroded and is almost nonexistent in your current form of democratic republic. The extraordinary influence that monied individuals and corporations have upon representatives of the public is egregious. It is intolerable. It is defaming and it is highly destructive. One must take a leap forward in the same degree of hope and faith that your founding fathers had when they wrote your current form of the constitution in that they had no way of knowing ahead of time whether this democracy/democratic form of governance would work or not. They wrote the design for this democracy, meaning that they set out the parameters of its performance, how it would function, and the system and the linear processes that would be involved. As those processes have become antiquated and ineffectual, it is necessary to now move forward with faith and confidence in the public to once again call upon the public to participate more effectively. I would not say more directly but more effectively. As you use the operative word of “what works.” “What works” is an important measurement of the performance in the long run.

Getting to Stage 3

You have the technologies now to design a new form of government, a new form of democracy as you mentioned—a stage three democracy. This has several processes involved that are integrated as circular systems. One is that local citizens would meet in what This One has called a design team process. It is a process of a team meeting where the team members have specific roles, it has a specific size, and it has various functions. The primary function is to ask and then use the wisdom of those present to garner the wisdom necessary to make your systems more effective regarding whatever social, political, or economic problem they are having in that local community. Their wisdom would be collected in the form of findings and should be collected with other teams across the nation, whether the nation is United States, Germany, England, Finland, or whatever country it may be. And the collective wisdom of the citizens would be made available as recommendations to their elected representatives. What is not said in all this is that this is a learning system.

Your present form or design of democracy does not have any embedded learning systems in it. It does not learn from experience. It is not able to test itself to see what works and what does not work. It is simply operated by the will and machinations and mentality of the representatives, senators, and so on who are involved in the processes of your government. What is the intention for all of this? Truly, it is the liberty and freedom of citizens to express and develop their innate potential by taking advantage of opportunities so that they can do so. It is important that feedback be received from citizens as social change is endemic to and indigenous to the public and which has made your current form of governance inadequate, antiquated, and intolerable.

The object, the intention of all this redesign of your democracy is to establish a process that is self-sustaining unto itself—not for the acquirement of more power, control, authority, and money by those who are elected, but that your nation would grow (quality) as the population grows (in quality). In such a design it would be advantageous to educate all people. It would be advantageous to exercise the greatest extent of democracy by allowing everyone to be able to vote who is age 18 and over, regardless of their district, regardless of their gender, their racial composition, ethnicity, and so on. It is important that all these efforts reflect a societal morality that has as its core intention to preserve the social organization of that society and of that nation. If this is not done, then oligarchies will take over as you suggest. Thank you.

Jeff: I would like a follow up question on that if I may. Machiventa, it seems that there is such a stranglehold by a few technology companies now that are not allowing any competition to interfere with what they see as the gathering of information and knowledge about all of us. Is it most likely that change will come, or most likely to come from the local level of people just reorganizing themselves to solve local problems with the stage three Democratic model to kind of wander through to find out what works and what doesn’t work and have that bubble up, or is it most likely that people will get angry and rebel and try to break up the oligopolies that are kind of stifling us at the moment?

Machiventa.  Yours is a speculative question which does not concern us. Thank you.

Jeff: Okay, thank you.


JT: I have a question from Walt. Walt asks: If a group of Urantia mortals were to become similarly enlightened as yourself, what key practices and pursuits would they engage in that you observe is not being done even by those of us who embrace these transcripts.

Machiventa.  Thank you for your question. The primary practice that you would want to use daily and throughout your day is self-observation. And self-observation of course is useless unless you have a standard by which you observe and estimate and evaluate your thinking, your words, and your actions. Self-observation of your thinking is not synonymous with self-analysis at all. Self-observation is that you in your self-will capacity, observe yourself as an outsider would, but your self-will is also interior to your mind and is able to estimate your egotism, your self-importance, your humility, and your loving kindness.

This self-observation by your will-mind has as its coach your Thought Adjuster—that individual fragment of God who is with you, who wants the very best for you, and of you and who will guide you in your self-observation when you ask. Now, some of you can hold a conscious dialogue with your Thought Adjuster and which we appraise as a very good thing. Some of you are still practicing to learn to do that, and that is a very good thing. You want to use this self-observation even if it is outside of the dialogue to estimate yourself, not out of guilt, not out of fear, not out of anxiety, but as an objective observer of the God presence within you that you know while you were doing this, that you are being monitored by your Thought Adjuster in that process who also wants only good for you. So, your self-observation is quite a practice that will help you make right decisions on an ongoing basis. If you are self-observing of your thinking that you want to live a lifestyle and quality of life similar to the people down the street who have so much more money, then you really are not living with your Thought Adjuster in a conscious relationship. That is a cultural relationship. That is not the concern of your Thought Adjuster.

The Thought Adjuster is concerned solely with you and your soul growth and your development as a spiritual being who wants to exercise their spiritual practices on a daily basis to become more perfect. We’re not talking about you striving to achieve sainthood by being such a goody two shoes—certainly not—because you need to live life in the grit and the grime of life that presents to you every day. You have decisions to make. You have children to raise, decisions to make concerning whether they go to school, when they go to school, and under what conditions they go to school if you live in an era of a pandemic. Many of you who are parents are not having an easy time of it. It is in fact very difficult. And you would need to become much like your example in Jesus as the elder brother of his siblings. He was a remarkable individual in doing that and his siblings grew to become stalwart individuals.

Yes, the practice of self-observation is critical to your spiritual growth. Also involved in that is your willingness to be an observer and a participant with your Thought Adjuster in the activities of your life. It eventually comes down to the fact that you cannot serve God and serve other means as well. For mortals, it is a compromise. It is a process of making decisions for which we started these answers. Thank you.

Potential topics

JT: All right. Walt also has some suggestions about potential topics of interests:

1). Practices and perspectives to eliminate negativity and achieve inner peace and joy

2). Practices of perspectives that eliminate negativity and achieve inner peace and joy

3). Practices and perspectives for achieving spiritual purity and power to best serve humanity, healing trauma in the self

4). How the individual can contribute to elevating the collective consciousness

5). Identifying and removing one’s blocks against effective living.

And my favorite two of his:

6). Cultivating relationships with the Thought Adjuster

7). Cultivating relationships with the Guardian Seraphim

And those are his suggestions.

Harmony of motivation

We also have Godwin repeating and expanding upon his questions from last week. He was talking about the harmony of motivation and his rephrasing of his question from last week is: The evolution of life on our planet began as the evolution of the physical form, designed by the Life Carriers to culminate in the evolution of the spirit form that eventually leaves the planet. Along with the physical form, the evolution of the internal component of the physical form took place, its energetic part, which was expressed through emotions. They motivated the animals to survive and maintain their quality of life. We received these emotions as an inheritance, and now humans throughout their lives struggle with their animal emotions. Nevertheless, the animal world is very harmonious, compared to the world of intelligent humans, who destroy themselves with these emotions. I suppose emotions are given to us as a motivation that drives us to act, but we have lost something in this evolution, apparently the harmony that exists in the animal world. That harmony was laid down by the Life Carriers. And it turns out that the more intelligence we acquired during evolution, the more we lost the harmony of motivation.  It is difficult to formulate a precise question here, but I would like to explore this inner energy area to have a greater understanding of the harmony of motivation, and to act more consciously.

Daniel: Well, JT I’m kind of swimming here. I’m treading water. How do you want to proceed? Do you want to formulate that as a question?

JT: He has forbidden me from inserting myself between him and Machiventa.

Daniel: One moment.

Machiventa.  Of the hundreds of words that you just recently used in your “question” the premise of your discussion is in error. For one, animals do not have emotions. Animals have reactions. They have genetic memory that was learned by the epigenetic process through the generations of their ancestors. When they are hungry, they hunt, and they kill other animals. They do not reason whether they like this animal or not. They simply want to kill it and eat it. Emotions, on the other hand, in humans—your species—is highly dependent upon your thinking and of your choice. Even in a situation where you are enraged, it is your choice to be enraged or not. When you do not consider or self-observe your reaction to a situation and you act out your rage to hurt someone, then you have regressed into your animal nature of killing the other person though you probably won’t eat them. This is the shortsightedness of human emotions. They are useful to portray the best aspects of your being through your empathy for others, your compassion to reach out to those in need, or with others in their joy and to develop a generalized love for all humanity. You need to rethink your question in light of this as you have gone astray in you’re thinking and what developed from the premise. Thank you.

JT: Okay and I’ll give him a chance to respond to that before I carry on with his questions. His suggestion for topics is to focus on the study of motivations. That’s the first sentence of his suggestion anyway. And we will go to Liz.

Liz: Good morning Machiventa. How are you today?

Machiventa.  I’m very well, thank you very much. The sun is shining where we are regardless of the weather where you are, or others are. Thank you.

A get-together during the pandemic

Liz: Well, the sun is shining here too and it’s a beautiful day made more so by our session with you today. So, I thank you for that. Machiventa, I’m feeling a hunger to get together in person with people who listen to or read these transcripts or who are on this call. The first time we tried to get together the people on the call, the covid pandemic hit, and we had to abort that plan and I was very sad about that. We’re having a small gathering next week, and I’m very (maybe overly) excited about that, and it makes me want to have a larger, more comprehensive gathering of people who are devoted to this line of thinking where we could perhaps engage in these small study groups or design teams. My concern is of course, future pandemics and as you have always referred to them in the plural. And so, I’m reluctant to begin organizing something like that. We did have a monthly discussion group that met online before there was a hiatus and that was somewhat beneficial, but ultimately, not quite satisfying to me, although I am happy to re-implement it and I’m wondering if you have words of advice to me about organizing something on a grander scale.

Ethics and morality during a pandemic

Machiventa.  Thank you for your question. The answers aren’t as direct as you may think. It will involve some homework on your part and on the part of others. The question is a matter of ethics and in the end it involves morality. The ethics has to do with your relationships—how to maintain your relationships in the face of pandemic. The second is to consider the morality involved in a gathering of people where someone disregards the lives of others and brings the pathogen into the group unsuspecting and unaware on their part. It is important that neither ethics nor morality be violated.

What is necessary then to maintain the relationship of individuals who wish to gather together is to devise a simple set of ethics that will assist you and enable you to gather together perhaps 20 people or even 30 who would like to meet in person without jeopardizing their health. You have seen clearly from the past two years, what the unawareness of someone who brings the pathogen into the midst of others [does to] those who return home. It is very similar to children who come from their community and get on a bus, travel to their school and classrooms, meet with other students and pass along the pathogen to those other children who pass them on to their siblings, their parents, perhaps their grandparents, and their neighbors with the potential loss of dozens and dozens of lives from that one incident.

You must answer this question: What ethics do you need to develop to ensure that those who attend are protected? It is not so much of having a group of people who have all had their vaccinations as opposed to those who refuse to get vaccinations. It is important that everybody be able to attend. Those who have had vaccinations would show proof that they have. Those who refuse to have vaccinations would need to show proof within the last day before they attend that they are not infected with that pathogen. This would be one way of assuring to some degree that everyone is safe in meeting together.

You see the factor we spoke about long ago about raising children raises its head particularly with adults who are conscious of being safe and being able to feel comfortable in the presence of others. When a person’s safety is proven to have been compromised, then the damage both ethically morally and in a relationship is tremendous. You would find that there would be almost no way that you could reestablish a personal loving, caring relationship with the person who infected you. It would be very difficult to do. Therefore, the ethics must be weighed on the side of caution rather than liberality. The consequences of ethical violation would be tantamount to a moral violation which would destroy your group. You must think of these possibilities. Those individuals who refuse to receive a vaccination may be offended by such stringent ethics. On the other hand, they would surely feel adrift if they were the cause of someone else’s death. Thank you.

Benefits of in-person meetings—rubbing auras

 Liz: Thank you for that. I understand what you’re saying and we have put into place restrictions on this small gathering that’s happening next week. I’m thinking of a larger gathering. I guess I’m wondering if the benefits outweigh the potential dangers of a group of 20 or maybe even 50 people getting together for three or four days even if we put these restrictions into place. Is there a true benefit of meeting in person and discussing these things rather than doing it online?

Machiventa.  Yes, there is a huge benefit by meeting in person. That answers that question. You raise a situation which I wish to address and that is: The ethics must be the same for a group of two people as it would be for 200 people. You want to be assured that there are no ruptures in the relationship between people—that the group can continue on, that the life and their vividity is intact and not violated so that the group can continue to move forward effectively. You have read where Jesus has said, where two or 3 are gathered together, I am there. Some people have extended this to the internet, to telephone calls, through emails and so on. We, however, feel that there is a serious diminution of the shared energy between people when those mechanisms are used. It becomes far more an intellectual process than that of meeting in person. You do not have the opportunity of rubbing elbows literally with your auras rubbing auras to become acquainted with the person you are talking to. Physical proximity is energetic as much as anything. You share that energy with another person, and your emotive energy is one factor of that. You are not aware of the other 2 or 3 senses of your being that do react to the presence of other people. You would want to do that. You would want to have a full stimulus from a benefit of knowing individuals who visit you.

The in-person visit is the most productive and most highly advantageous. You see when two or three are gathered together, you share a consciousness of oneness that is shared with Christ Michael, your guardian angel, your Thought Adjusters and the group angels who would attend to your group. If you think of these senses and the energy that is shared in person as being 100, then those that are shared through the medium of Skype, of video sessions, telephones, and emails would hover between 5 and 10%. It is only increased from that when the emotional and energetic interpersonal energies arise in those situations. Thank you.

Liz: Well, thank you for that answer as always. I feel this hunger to rub auras with the other people on this call in with other people who read these transcripts. So, I will proceed and put out the call for maybe a group of organizers who want to join me in in putting this together for early next year. You would support that?

Machiventa.  Most definitely.

Liz: And you would grace us with your presence?

Machiventa.  You couldn’t keep us away.

Liz: Wonderful. Thank you so much Machiventa.

Machiventa.  I have a question for you though. Why delay it so long?

Liz: Well, that’s a good question. These things take a while to organize, but it could be done late this summer. Is that what you’re thinking?

Machiventa.  Yes, or between then and the end of the year. One qualifier I must insist on is that those who are involved in the development of your ethical guidelines for such a meeting must be unanimous. If there are individuals who have hidden agendas that they do not share, this would be highly detrimental to the group for it will eventually come out. Thank you.

Liz: Thank you. Well, the timing sequence is of concern to me in that if we’re talking about this current pandemic, those of us who are vaccinated against this pathogen would be safe together. I don’t know when the next pathogen will show up. If another one shows up, then we will all have to redo this process. So, the timing is kind of critical and then we want to do it sooner rather than later, I suppose. So, I will take this under advisement. Thank you.

Ethics and morality of vaccines

Raymond: Good afternoon Machiventa. This is Raymon. So, we just talked about morality and ethics. And back in the 1950s and 1960s, well up to 61, they had the wonder drug called thalidomide, that they were going to help and save everybody. And that turned out to be a disaster. So, now in regard to the vaccine and when you spoke about ethics and morality, what are your thoughts on the ethics and morality of making a vaccine that alters your DNA with unknown consequences? It’s not repairable or reversible. So, and your thoughts on that.

Machiventa.  This is Machiventa. So, you tease me with this question for it’s not real, is it?

Raymon: It is a real question.

Machiventa.  It does not exist, does it?

Raymon: What drug, thalidomide?

Machiventa.  The drug you’re talking about that you surmise would cause DNA damage.

Raymon: No, it’s real. Even the even vaccine makers tell you how they’re changing it with mRNA. It’s not a fantasy question.

Machiventa.  It’s a personal question that needs to be answered by the individual. Whether they take the drugs or not. We are not entering into speculative questions today, and do not plan to in the future. If you have resistance to taking the drug, then don’t take the drug. It is your will that is involved.

Raymon: I know but it’s not speculative Machiventa. That’s my point.

Machiventa.  Then you would want to educate the public, wouldn’t you?

Raymon: I would indeed, and they have. But nobody understands what mRNA is really. Most people don’t anyway.

Machiventa.  Thank you for your question. Can we move on?

Raymon: Sure. Thank you.

JT: That’s all the questions Machiventa. If you have a closing, I thought we’d open the floor to discussion of possible topics after your closing.

Life is a precious commodity

Machiventa.  Thank you. This is Machiventa Melchizedek your planetary manager. As you can see you live on a hazardous planet where there are many unknowns that you are not sure of your life as it exists and so you must withdraw according to your judgment, your estimation, and your discernment from those activities that you think would be hazardous to your life. This is your choice, and we support that completely. We do not want you to be cavalier about your life. Nor do we suggest that others be cavalier about their lives. Life is a precious commodity, and it is given to you with the hope that you would maximize its potential. If you think that potential is jeopardized, then you must do what is necessary to preserve your potential for expression. This is one of the mandates of your mortal life as a spiritual being who is in the process of becoming.

Be aware of yourself as a god in expression

There are many aspects about your being—physically, psychologically, mentally, intellectually, and spiritually that you are unaware of that are going on right now without your awareness. Life becomes more exciting when you become more aware of yourself as a god in expression and becoming more real soul-wise; that you become more real and visible to the morontial beings around you even as you are a mortal. You wish to become perfect. You will to become perfect. You will to will God’s will be done in your life. This is the process of becoming more godlike.

You are acquainted with the Hippocratic oath. We have one as well: that we not provide you with information that would jeopardize your existence, that we not encourage you to be risk takers when risks would be hazardous to your life’s journey. We must preserve life and cause no further injury to you than you have already. Your life as a mortal is fraught with challenges that are hazardous to your well-being. We strive to protect you in all instances without providing you with the answers of how to live your life. It is difficult for you, yes, and it’s difficult for us for we feel your sincerity. You know of our sincerity for we are sincere beings living in different worlds.

Many of us here have been mortals—many of our company have been mortals on other planets who observe what is going on here and they wish to compassionately assist you with your questions on a similar mortal plane as they experienced on theirs. It is with a heavy heart, but I wish you well during your day and you’re coming days, for I am unable to provide you with the answers that you seek. And many times, the answers we would give you would not assuage you of every difficulty, or of your worry and your fears. We wish you well in all your being. We wish you most of all to become more perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect and as Christ Michael is as well, Good day.

JT: Thank you Machiventa and thank you Daniel.

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